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Monday, November 19, 2007


All I can say right now is WOW!

This book is not the type to really do a chapter-by-chapter review on since it is more factual than exegetical or expository. But I do have a lot to say when I get done with it. I'm also going to invite Bren to comment, as I have sent her a copy to review.

It is easy to stand in the middle of an argument when you have never been face-to-face with the reality of it, but I am ashamed to say that even I have been making concession. And once you've had children in your home who are familiar with evil, it changes your perspective, YET I have allowed them to be quietly indoctrinated. I'm not a newbie, but I sure have been acting like one!

I can't really get into detail yet as there is no way to do it without waiting to see what the author's conclusion is, but so far I think she is spot on and I will be adding this book to my recommended reading for parents, ESPECIALLY foster parents.


Bren said...

Oh Amy, I have set the book aside until after the holidays as it looks very intense. Also, Charlotte was not in a cycle when I got it from you, though that has all changed...maybe this is God's way of telling me to pick up the book NOW! The past 2 weeks have been hell. I sometimes look over my shoulder as I am certain Satan himself is here in my home!!!! I think I will start it tonight...thanks, I needed to be reminded. What do you think of kids who steal? Ever deal with it yourself??? I will be back tomorrow with a comment about the book!

motherofmany said...

Oh, we are having a cycle ourselves! We have three that steal regularly, from shop lifting to money at church, and last week oats from the floor of the kitchen when we were packaging up our grain in the pails to store in the crawl space.

I have a hard time understanding it from the middle-youngest because she remembers nothing of her previous life, and have no explaination except that foolishness is bound in the heart of a child and kids who have an 'excuse' will exploit it. But it is still baffling to me why- they never have money or a chance to spend it, so cash is a dead give away, and the food stealing often happens on the way OUT of the kitchen after a meal. The youngest actually stepped on some bread the baby had dropped and squished it between her toes and started to walk back to her room. I noticed she was walking funny, so I stopped her. She got really nervous and when I picked up her leg, there was bread squished between her toes that she was taking to her room to 'save for later'.

Not to finger point, but everyone gets everything immediately anymore, so they do not appreciate what they have or understand waiting to earn it. For my kids, candy was a bribe to cover the abuse, so they equate candy with love. When I refuse to give it to them (if we have a treat, it will be home-made) I think they believe the lie that they are being neglected.

Also, other people reinforce the 'cry for help'. I mentioned once that our son stole money from the church. We made him go before the church to confess it, and afterward a man gave him some money (without our knowing it, which baffles me as well since we keep our kids with us AT ALL TIMES) and that just gave him the totally wrong message.

But I do have to disagree with the 'psychology' answer that they steal because they are missing part of their hearts. People live through trauma all the time and have for all of history. That doesn't mean it is OK to harm kids, but it is not an excuse and we cannot give them any crutch. The idea that kids who are hurt have a need to hurt others is a lie, and you know who is the father of lies!

What's your stealing situation?

Bren said...

My dd steals sugar. Anything sweet and it doesn't matter who it belongs to EXCEPT Daddy. She will steal NOTHING that she thinks is his. She still thinks she has him fooled, though she doesn't. I found 8 empty lipgloss containers in her room...the kind with a roller ball at the top. All empty as she ate the was flavored and sweet. SHe stole these from girls at school (we homeschool now because of the stealing) Pop, cookies, cake, packets of Splenda (she will eat the wrappers to hide the evidence)...anything sweet she spends great time plotting and planning to get it, even when it is accessable to her. When she stole hershey kisses (my personal stash, which I thought she was unaware of) out of my desk and I caught her with them, she looked like a deer in the headlights. I took them from her and sent her to her room. I prayed about it and took the kisses (a handful) into her room and set them on her nightstand. I said "These must really be important to you for you to break my trust and sneak and steal them. If they are THAT important to you I want you to have them." I walked out and do you know those candys ALL sat on her table for over a week. She would NOT touch them and begged me to take them back. I would not and finally she asked me if she could just throw them away. I said "Whatever...they belong to you." She did. (maybe she went back in the trash and stole them from herself...I would not be surprised)
I have had stealing issues with my youngest too, though he was used by his sister to steal for her so it was taught to him. As he has gotten older and is tender hearted toward doing good, he has really curbed it. Anyway....she came with an alphabet soup of problems, most of which have faded, but stealing and lying(which is 50% or more better with Dr. Post's technique) are still big issues.

motherofmany said...

Oh, wow! I thought we were the only ones to have the lip gloss problem! We also have issues with toothpaste and pencil erasers (cause they say GUM eraser on them) as well as horse feed and shelled corn.

I tried the 'you must really need this so you can keep it' approach, but they just dug in and ate the whole bag and wanted more. We also had to stop going out alone together because one night our son convinced the babysitter that he was ill and needed to go in our bathroom to throw up since someone was in the other, and he locked himself in our room and ransacked the place. He broke the jewelry box Gary bought me and took money from Gary's wallet. He also took the box of dark chocolates we keep in there for medicinal purposes (migraines) even though they had just had dinner and a snack.

When he was in school, he was still foster, so he got free lunch. At the end of the year, we got a note that they wouldn't release his report card until his cafeteria bills was paid. They were letting him charge extra chocolate milk and granola bars. He also took money and candy from the teacher's desk.

About a year ago he said he was really afraid because he had a dream that Satan was chasing him. I asked him why he thought he dreamed somthing like that, and he said he knew it was because he was doing what the devil wanted, but even that hasn't curbed his actions.

I've never heard of Dr. Post. I'll have to look that up. Since we are near Keck's office they said we could petition to have a week of sessions with him and the county would pay it, but I didn't like his philosophy.

Bren said...

Man, you think you are the only one with these "weird" issues. We deal with the toothpaste thing too. Pencil erasers AND the metal band that holds the eraser...these are chewed into balls and stored. She was diagnosed with PICA. It is much better now, but it may be what you are dealing with too. Dr. Post was RAD himself...a foster kid and then adopted...his sister is in and out of prison. He was a major thief and liar, plus a fire bug! He was put with his adoptive family as a baby but the rejection in the womb can be very strong. His website is I found some of his stuff great and others I put way am I feeding this kid from a bottle!!!! He has a great book out...Beyond Consequences, Logic, and Control. VERY worth the read. I am not kidding about the lying. It was so simple and I was sure it would not work. It worked the first time. I ordered his entire DVD series but you can just get the book. He gives you back your $117 (series price) if you are not questions asked, no time limit, nothing. I feel we got enough good out of it that I would not return it. We have tried it all...Nancy Thompson, RAD Therapy, deliverance...Post has been the most successful so far.

motherofmany said...

We self-diagnosed Joe with PICA when he got here. It was cotton balls, saran wrap, and the ends of the army men that could be chewed off.

We, unfortunately, took the advice of the county-assigned shrink and did the baby bottle route. It did no good. That is probably why we are so 'jaded' about the new approached and popular doctors on TV. Plus, they are so backward in their approach. Joe was given a box with his father's face on it, and when he got angry he was to kick that box. OK, not saying the kid doesn't have every right to be angry, but is that how you teach him to handle it? I hard a saying once, maybe a Chinese proverb, that if you look at the boy at 7 you will see the man he will be. Now I obviously don't follow extra-Biblical 'wisdom', but agree that by around 7 you have pretty well formed your own personality and perspective. So he will carry the 'kick the box' attitude into adulthood and assume it is justified, and then when he gets arrested for beating up someone who made him mad, he will feel betrayed.

We definitely need help with lying. I'm gonna go order that book.